I am taking a brief intermission in my story to share this but there will be another post coming soon to continue the story. You might notice that “anonymous” had posted a comment on my previous post and deleted it. This person was very bold in their comment, however, after posting and deleting the comment 5 times (yep… 5!) and staying up until all hours of the night they were not bold enough to keep it posted, nor provide their name so I could address them personally. I feel like this comment needs to be addressed since I’m sure many people reading my blog feel very similarly so here is the comment and my reply:
Honestly, it is simply the most generic form of anti-mormon literature available. None of it is valid information, and the power of the Holy Ghost will confirm that, if a sincere prayer is offered. Most of the information sited can easily be discredited, in some cases even by the original author(s). It is apparent that the ideals and values asked to be upheld by Church members were simply too much and you chose to no longer follow it. Your short term peace that has come to you and your family is not a reward based on your choice, but can be compared to a suicidal person which has finally committed to the act, sees a way out, and is once again happy of the prospect of death and ending their grief.
In addition, instead of quietly walking away and accepting responsibility for your choice to turn your back on the Gospel, you are publically denouncing the true Church of Jesus Christ, probably not thinking about potential eternal judgements. Chosing for yourself is one thing, but your children, and publically publishing false works on your blog is another. Keep in mind, that if anyone who may be waivering and falters because of your words or "research" and publically displayed works will envoke a swift and powerful judgement against you. (Anonymous)
Wowser! Thems are fightn’ words! But, in all fairness this is the most generic of True Blue Mormon replies. In fact, two years ago that would have been close to my exact response (minus the suicide thing, seriously, how insensitive!). Ok, mine would have been a little more “loving” but then again this post obliviously upset “Anonymous” who then gave a very typical response. I don’t know if this person was personally offended by my story or if posting facts that the church does not refute (I put the links in the posts for a reason, to allow people to see my references and see that I was not looking at “anti-mormon” literature) or maybe this person is finding themselves where I was with a doubting spouse and a possibly upsetting future. No matter their situation they were upset, so upset the post was put up and deleted 5 times over a 1.5 hour time frame.
First, it is valid information. Please, look at the links I provided – if you don’t trust my research look for yourself at http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/ an apologetics site that “defends” most all of the issues I have posted in my blog. Or if you don’t trust the internet read “Rough Stone Rolling” by Richard Bushman (one of the primary editors of the Joseph Smith papers and leading LDS Historian of Joseph Smith) it talks about the multiple versions of the First Vision, his polyandry, his polygamy, translating the BOM with his face in a hat, counterfeiting money, destroying printing presses, etc. Even http://familysearch.org acknowledges Joseph’s many wives and the resulting confusion of parentage for the children of his polyandrous relations.
Second, I did pray. They were some of the most sincere and heartfelt prayers I’ve ever offered. The answer I got was that everything would be ok, the same thing our bishop told us when we talked to him, and what I can now comfortably tell the world. Everything is ok.
Ironically I used to think that people left the church only left for the reason stated “It is apparent that the ideals and values asked to be upheld by Church members were simply too much and you chose to no longer follow it.” I know nothing I say here will make you think otherwise, because I was once just as close minded as “anonymous” but rest assured my family and I have not changed our lifestyle. I still don’t watch rated R movies, we don’t drink, don’t smoke, don’t do drugs, etc. More importantly we DO spend quality time together, try to help those in need, donate to worthy causes, serve people around us and look for opportunities to volunteer our time and efforts to those who need it. (And we don’t have any addictions to caffeine, cough...cough ;) ).
I refuse to address the suicide comment as I think suicide is tragic and should not be spoken of so lightly.
As for publicly denouncing the “True Church” I am doing no such thing. I am posting my story for those interested to read as most anyone who knows me has assumed what my story is but no one knew the truth. I needed a release, I needed to have a place to put my story so if someone did want to know they could find out. Yes, there are some upsetting things in it and I have made a special effort to warn the reader in advance when there may be controversial issues. I have shared my experience, how I felt, and my resulting decision. What others do with this is up to them as an individual. If they would like to dismiss my story as “anonymous” did they are welcome to. If they are interested in learning more I have provided some links (once again most all are LDS approved sites). If all they gain from my blog posts is a better understanding at what transpired over the last year at the “end of the street” then I have met my goal. Believe it or not I am not trying to affect others’ testimonies; however, I have come to terms that through this I may. But for someone who is going through what I have gone through I also want to let you know there is hope, there is light at the end of the tunnel, and there is a beautiful life waiting.
The fear that is so apparent in this comment is understandable, as I once was full of that same fear. It is terrifying that the simple act of loud laughter could cause a reprimand from God. I couldn’t imagine what would happen if I sincerely questioned “His” belief system. There is a quote that has given me the courage to follow the path I have chosen it reads: “The beginning of wisdom is found in doubting; by doubting we come to the question, and by seeking we may come upon the truth.” (Pierre Abelard) I no longer feel that fear and am comfortable with who I am.
As for the “swift and powerful judgment” I will take what comes, but personally I believe in a loving and fair God. If the apologists at http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/ and http://www.fairlds.org/ haven’t met their judgment yet (as their articles have led MANY a questioner to research their own religion more, find the scary facts, then leave the church) I’m sure He will outstretch His loving hand to a girl that needed to release her inner workings and story to the world in hopes that some love and understanding may result instead of the “swift and powerful judgment” given by her peers. I also think that that same loving God might be reserving his judgment for truly bad people – abusers, rapists, murderers, those that commit genocide, and those in power that spread hate and intolerance.
I hope you keep reading “anonymous” and that you will find it in your heart to finish my story… maybe your judgment won’t be so swift to the thousands of people, who like me, found a truth for themselves and decided to live their lives according to their own moral compass. There is a huge community of former Mormons that is growing daily who all need a little compassion and understanding; even a little validation would do wonders. Many of these people are bitter and hurt, they no longer see any good in the church because of the intolerance of the church and it’s members (I still do). Thank you for your comment and the courage it took for you to almost post it, I’m sure it was a very emotional experience for you.
I am not close minded, I am not so arrogant to say I have all the answers, and I am still open to whatever truth I find. Please, feel free to comment, opening a line of dialogue is another purpose of this blog. I encourage anyone to reply whether positive or negative (however I do reserve the right to delete any hateful or unproductive comments on either side). Please feel free to refute any of my conclusions; I encourage anyone to bring up evidence contrary to that which I have found. Thank you to those who have been encouraging and positive, you have bolstered me up when I have needed some extra motivation to continue this process. Most of all thank you for continuing to read and show interest, I have been surprised at the number of people interested in my story. Oh, and “anonymous” I’d be willing to address any of your other concerns either in person, via email, or through this blog. I am genuinely open to any future communication you would like to have.
My story will continue with a new post tomorrow, until then please feel free to share your comments.
With that in mind, I have chosen two specific points in which your information is not as accurate or as widely accepted as you may think. First, I will address Mark William Hofmann. You mentioned the “Salamander Letter”. Based on your age, I am guessing that you are too young to know of the truth behind Hoffman, or are simply looking over the truth to appease your choice. True, he was a talented and brilliant artist. He was highly skilled in forgeries of many historical documents which gained worldwide attention, providing documents including signatures from George Washington, John Adams, John Quincy Adams, John Brown, Daniel Boone, Andrew Jackson, Mark Twain, Nathan Hale, Francis Scott Key, Abraham Lincoln, Paul Revere, and even Emily Dickinson. This ability provided him with a lavish lifestyle, a large Murray, Utah home, new sports car (Toyota MR2 Turbo), and genuine first edition books, but he soon began to leave beyond his means. The threat of his debts crashing in on him caused him to begin to become sloppy in his work, eventually causing his demise. He began pursuing the production of the “McLellin Collection” and the “Salamander Letter”. The “Salamander Letter” was accepted as potentially being true based on the mythical reference to a salamander as a creature being “able to live in fire”, thus the term being used as a descriptive term and supported the description Joseph Smith “saw a bright light that descended upon him”. Upon purchase of the letter, to document its authenticity, extensive forensic studies were completed and it was discovered that the incorrect ink had been used. This was determined by the FBI, SLCPD, as well as an independent Arizona based document examiner. Once he learned that his works were being questioned, Hofmann turned to violence in an attempt to silence the opposition. He created 3 bombs of which 2 were mailed killing each of the targets; Steven Christensen, and Kathy Sheets. The third exploded prematurely inside Hoffman’s MR2, leaving him paralyzed. His home was searched and a semi-automatic assault rifle modified to fire fully automatic was discovered along with bomb making materials in his basement. He was federally indicted on forgery, weapons charges, as well as murder and is currently serving in the Utah State Prison. While in prison, Hofmann attempted suicide by overdosing on antidepressants and was not found for over 12 hours. In that time, pressure of his body weight was placed on his right arm causing a lack of blood flow ultimately atrophying his arm, leaving it permanently disabled, without the ability to ever forge again.
ReplyDeleteI am well aware of Mark Hofmann and his forgeries. I chose not to go into detail of the Salamander letters because although damaging to the church and many testimonies at the time, it was not a major factor of what ultimately led to my decision.
ReplyDeleteYou did fail to mention that Mark Hoffman met with many leaders of the church, including President Hinkley, who purchased his forgeries. How was it they didn't use the power of discernment when meeting with him and using tithing money to purchase at least 445 documents. You also failed to mention that the church had the McLellin collection (a collection of 19th century papers and journals believed to be damaging to the church) in their possession (unbeknownst to them in the first Presidency vault) before paying Hofmann $185,000 for the ones he claimed to have. (You can find all this information and more in "Victims: The LDS Church and the Mark Hofmann case" written by Richard Turley)
I don't see how this is a testimony building story. Please help me understand since this is not the first time it has been brought up to me by a believing member.
You also forgot to mention the second point.
For anyone hoping to learn more about Mark Hofmann there is a very interesting interview at http://mormonstories.org/?p=1236
ReplyDeleteI know we have differing opinions about hunting, but I want to give you some information about Deseret Land and Livestock where they sell permits for hunting...My friend Leslie got a permit last year and was able to harvest a beautiful elk and now has enough meat to feed her family for the rest of the year. As a stay-at-home mom she wants to become more self sufficient and was happy to be able to contribute to her family's needs. Anyway, Deseret Land and Livestock is one of 50 church owned farms that has over 8,000 head of cattle which is used for the Church Welfare program. The elk population was getting out of hand, so they decided to sell permits to keep it in control, which makes the heard as a whole healthier.
ReplyDeleteWhile I'm here, I just have to say that I don't feel like a "cookie-cutter" person :)
With love and respect,
Andrea
Andrea, although I could write a number of blog posts on my opinion of hunting that wasn’t my major issue with what I found in the article I posted. I think we may also be talking about two different enterprises of the church. If you read the Deseret News article that I linked to in my post they mention that the church has a number of for profit private hunting reserves run by service missionaries. My issues with that are numerous but the primary issues I took upon first reading the article was that those couples were paying to be on a mission and the church assigned them to work at a for profit reserve instead of creating a paying job for someone in need. Not only are the reserves for profit but they charge a substantial fee making the reserve not for the needy but for the wealthy that desire to hunt for sport. According to a handful of prophets and apostles including George Q Cannon, Lorenzo Snow, and Joseph F Smith hunting for sport is not acceptable and hunting should only be tolerated to feed one’s family.
ReplyDelete"We should by every means in our power impress upon the rising generation the value of life and how dreadful a sin it is to take life. The lives of animals even should be held far more sacred than they are. Young people should be taught to be very merciful to the brute creation and not to take life wantonly or for sport. The practice of hunting and killing game merely for sport should be frowned upon and not encouraged among us. God has created the fowls and the beasts for man's convenience and comfort and for his consumption at proper times and under proper circumstances; but he does not justify men in wantonly killing those creatures which He has made and with which He has supplied the earth."
Gospel Truth, Vol. 1, p.30 – George Q Cannon
In my opinion the duplicity in this was a little too glaring for me to accept.
Thank you for sharing Leslie’s experience and for giving me the chance to clarify my feelings on the subject. I really do appreciate your comment and the thoughtfulness with which you posted.
Let's just say that we lovingly agree to disagree :)
ReplyDeleteActually, I do want to say a little more...I think that The Church is really smart in selling hunting rights. If you have an overpopulation of animals they are going to do better if you thin the heard. You can either pay someone to come and get rid of them or you can have people who are willing to pay to come and get rid of them, from a business standpoint the latter is a much smarter decision. The prices that they charge are very comparable and possibly even cheaper than other hunting reserves. The Church is a very smart business and knows how to sustain their properties and investments. If you can charge people for hunting, you can feed and care for your cattle on the ranch with the money and be more self-sustaining.
ReplyDeleteThe Church shouldn't judge people for their intentions for hunting whether it be for meat or sport. People have their own agency and can choose to do what they want, it's not up to The Church to police their actions.
I didn't know that people go on missions to the church's hunting sights but to each his own, I know that my husband would be thrilled at the chance to serve a mission at one of those places and I would whole heartedly stand next to him and be willing to pay to do it, if that's where we were called to go. People are very different and I think the Lord is wise enough to send couples to these missions who would be thrilled to go.
I do agree that it is good business practice for a cattle ranch to sell hunting permits for an overpopulated herd. But once again we are talking about two very different enterprises - their ranches vrs the private hunting reserves.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, I think it's wise to lovingly agree to disagree as we will and should on most every aspect of the church.
You’re awesome Janea! I’m amazed at how open you’re willing to be, especially when obviously dealing with such a sensitive subject. I think it’s great that you’re putting your story out there and I hope that everyone, other than this one nameless individual, can continue to approach this blog in the same considerate manner. As far as my opinion goes…
ReplyDeleteIt seems that it’s commonly preached that there are only three possible reasons for leaving the church: 1. We’ve been offended, 2. We’re too lazy (can’t handle church demands), or 3. A strong desire to sin (or existing sin). True believing mormon’s can’t fathom the 4th option which is what I’ve found to be the most common. 4. Integrity demands it.
I now have a testimony that the church is not true. Denying that fact and teaching my children otherwise (despite my beliefs) for the sake of social graces; would frankly make me a lesser person. Going back to basics is not going to help anything once you know “the basics” was a lie in the first place. Nor is the intolerant fear mongering that this individual is so happy to preach. I’m not going to judge anyone based on their religious beliefs, as I know everyone’s journey is different; but I do hold strongly to my opinion. My opinion is that Hinckley was being intentionally facetious in the below quote.
"Well, we have nothing to hide. Our history is an open book. They may find what they are looking for, but the fact is the history of the church is clear and open and leads to faith and strength and virtues."
Hinckley ~ Dec. 25, 2005 interview with The Associated Press
I’ve always had a very high opinion of Gordon B. Hinckley and I’m sure I always will. But the church has a lot to hide and they invest of a lot of their resources keeping anything hidden that doesn’t qualify as “faith promoting.” I believe that the church is doing itself a disservice in doing this, because if I was not blindsided with so much of this information I may have found a way to accept it. As it is, we were forced to accept the reality of the situation and let go of the cognitive dissonance that made my head spin for years.
Then how do we disagree on so much but get along so well? :)
ReplyDelete